KEYFRAMER difficult

Please use this part to report bugs & errors, ask questions & "How to..."
User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 25 Oct 2012, 20:19

Hi, i'm new here 'n i'm trying the STANDARD EDICTION!

After Reding the pdf Lesson about keyframer i'm testing it but no one thing moves.
My first thing about a cartoon is that i need to feel myself free to get background movements from left to right, right to left 'n a kind of zoom in 'n out.
Last but not list the speed of movements.
For sure something i do is wrong to get movements. So i will really happy to get a Step by Step on what i must to do to get movements using KEYFRAMER.

'till now i feel myself frustrated about it, so i hope someone can help me please. Thank you! :D

User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 2481
Joined: 08 May 2008, 21:10
Location: berlin, germany
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by slowtiger » 25 Oct 2012, 21:01

Keyframer:
You need an empty layer and a source for the BG. Usually the BG will be a separate TVP file, bigger than the actual project file you're working in. Open this BG project file, but stay in your other project.
Open the keyframer, select the tab "render", select the other project as source.
Click "preview" active (at the bottom). You should see your BG now.
Select the tab "position". You're in frame #1? Then go into the little green square in the middle and drag. BG should move. Adjust position until satisfied, then click the "C" in Keyframer. A little "+" appears right under the frame in your timeline. This is a keyframe.
Go to another frame, like the end of your clip, say #100. Move the BG again. You don't need to do more, TVP automatically creates a key here.
Select all frames in that layer. Hit "Apply". Rejoyce.

You can move the keys around, delete them, create new ones.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 26 Oct 2012, 11:43

Hi SLowtiger,
i'm really happy to say that your suggestion is Good!!! Wow It workz!!!
The testing i done using ur suggestion for keyframer is more simply: i mean that i dont used separate tvp file if you mean to use another project. Why you suggest to me to stay in another project??

Thank you one more time for your keyframer suggestion!

User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 2481
Joined: 08 May 2008, 21:10
Location: berlin, germany
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by slowtiger » 26 Oct 2012, 12:48

Because yor task - moving a BG behind a character - requires that your BG is larger than your actual project.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 26 Oct 2012, 14:16

Mhh, so, after i need to "mix" (to melt) two projects, it's right? Wll, how is possible to do that??

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7737
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 26 Oct 2012, 20:40

You hit Apply FX Stack.
But I often prefer to start with a long BKG and animate the character walking across it. In such a case you don't need to open two projects to merge, but just follow the character with an imaginary camera. The real advantage of this method is that there is no issue with synchronizing the moving background to the character's footsteps so that it doesn't appear to "skate".
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 26 Oct 2012, 21:10

Hi Paul,
what i need to obtain is ufo flying in the sky so frequently like a ufo detail is mainly 'n the sky is lil portion 'n behind the ufo detail. The two situations must shows sky that moves.
I'm testing the standard ediction (i don't have camera but i mean what you say :wink: ).
The main problem i see is based on size (or dimension if prefer) of the frame 'n the source that it is the painted (in photoshop) background).
Obliviously i need a bigger (than project) BGround, ok, but the results are: 1) the size (or dimension if you prefer) of imported background is all included in what i see (the frame).
So in this situation when i use the fx Keyframer i obtain the remaining space at left and to the right of the frame.
2)If i put BGround bigger than frame it is not complete so when i see the movement, the background is not complete, is cutted :(

The Standard ediction is able resolve this problem??

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7737
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 26 Oct 2012, 21:39

If the BG is too small relative to the foreground (the UFO) you have a problem. You either have to blow the BG up (which might make it too pixilated, or you have to make the foreground smaller (but your drawing might not tolerate because the lines would start breaking up.) If this is not the case and you decide you could shrink the UFO, use "Modify Project" for this (under Project tab of TVP's main menu bar.
I would repaint the BG in a new TVP project of just the right size but this is something you have to figure out for yourself.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
ZigOtto
Posts: 4102
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 22:50
Location: south-Petazonia

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ZigOtto » 26 Oct 2012, 23:49

ebphoto wrote:...
The Standard edition is able resolve this problem??
I think so, using the KeyFramer and a secondary (oversized) project containing your BG as source,
technically, Slowtiger gave you the answer few posts above :
slowtiger wrote:Keyframer:
You need an empty layer and a source for the BG. Usually the BG will be a separate TVP file, bigger than the actual project file you're working in. Open this BG project file, but stay in your other project.
Open the keyframer, select the tab "render", select the other project as source.
Click "preview" active (at the bottom). You should see your BG now.
...
slowtiger wrote:Because your task - moving a BG behind a character - requires that your BG is larger than your actual project.

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 27 Oct 2012, 07:34

Hi ZigOtto,
mh probably you are right. I must try this solution but i don't think i can concretize using the trial version...

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 27 Oct 2012, 09:19

Well done ZigOtto, the test was good!! :)
U r right: i was not able to pick at the best the suggestion of Slowtiger. The reason is why i'm new to use this software 'n it's very full of things to discover..'n also 'cose i think it's better to use the Step by Step way say how to use this software.
I also found a new way to get bigger BGround! :D
Using Keyframer is possible to choose the Z with values as - (example -100, -200 ecc) So, the BGround will be bigger!!
Using the Slowtiger suggestion or mine the thing to now is: how to obtain the better quality for the background.
Too much settings for it 'n i dunno what i must choose in popup called "New project" 'n the file format e size of the background.. Some suggestion there??? :?:

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7737
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 27 Oct 2012, 10:19

As I wrote previously, you could create a new program to import your original background into and expand. Once expanded to the size you need it to be you should be able to retouch the rough parts with a paint brush.

To create this BG, decide on the height and length you need it to be, for instance the height of your UFO project, plus 3 or 4 times its length. Open New Project in your current TVP (UFO) project (the icon in the very left corner of the project's menu bar) and open tab "Project with camera. In the left column enter the dimensions I described above; in the middle, where it says Ratio, enter at least 120%, maybe more, depending on how wildly you plan to move this BG up and down and sideways. Keep it big enough so that you will safely never run out of space. Then your new dimensions will appear automatically in the right column.

When working with these formats and FX, keep your drawing window very small within your Project Panel, so that you have ample space in the surrounding areas to see what is happening with your binding box -- the color lines that delineate the final edges of your two projects.

I suggest you at first draw a very rough sketch of the basic shapes within your BG -- just a pen line drawing will suffice.
Now make a practice run of your camera move with the KeyFramer to make sure you have enough space covered within the size of your BG so that you never run out of it (remember to keep everything small within the project window so that you have all shapes in site and know what's going on.

Then return to BG sketch and paint in TVP... or export it to PhotoShop if you must, but I see no reason why you should.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
ebphoto
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 21:21
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by ebphoto » 27 Oct 2012, 10:34

I can't do on Standard ediction.. thanx always..

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7737
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 27 Oct 2012, 10:37

What is the part you can't do? I am not convinced that you are right).
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
D.T. Nethery
Posts: 2628
Joined: 27 Sep 2006, 19:19

Re: KEYFRAMER difficult

Post by D.T. Nethery » 27 Oct 2012, 12:32

ebphoto wrote:I can't do on Standard ediction.. thanx always..

Then you are skipping a step or not applying the FX to all the frames. The KeyFramer in Standard Edition and in Pro Edition is the exact same tool. Your difficulty has nothing to do with yours being Standard edition.



Try this, following each step precisely:


1.) Create a New Project (File Menu -- NEW Project ) with dimensions 2560 wide x 480 high . Name that Project "BG Layer" .

2.) Now create another New Project with dimensions 640 w x 480 h . Name this project "Animation Layer" . (the BG Layer is 4 x 640 wide)

3.) Go back to the first project , BG Layer , and draw a simple BG across the entire width of the project This could be as simple as a horizon line and a cactus , like a cartoon desert scene :

Image

Image

Please notice that the Start Position (in blue field) and the End Position (red field) are identical . This would allow the BG to pan in a seamless loop if you needed to repeat it. If you do not need your BG to repeat then the Start and Ending positions do not need to match .


But the point here is just to make a simple BG layer in your 2560 x 480 project .


4.) Next return to the other project ("Animation Layer") and drag out the first frame to 72 frames (so your test pan scene will last for 3 seconds = 72 frames) Or right-click on the first frame and "Set Frame Repeat" = 72 frames.


5.) Now staying within the "Animation Layer" project , go to the FX Stack --- Motion --- KeyFramer . Go to the RENDER tab and select the Source : click on Source --- scroll down to select from PROJECT LIST: select your other project "BG Layer" as the Source .

6.) Now return to the POSITION tab in the KeyFramer and drag the green handle in the middle of the frame to the left to set the Start Position. When you have the start position where you want it you must click on the "C" button ("C" = "CREATE KEYFRAME") . You will notice when you click on the "C" button a + mark appears under the first frame on the timeline . You have now set the first keyframe.

Now move to the last frame (frame 72) on the timeline and drag the green handle to the right to set the End Position . Make sure that the keyframe has been set on frame 72 (you should see the little + mark under frame 72 :

Image


7.) At this point you may Preview the move if the preview button is checked in the FX Stack . Click the Play Button and watch the move. If the move looks like what you want then you must now SELECT ALL frames on the timeline (Ctrl + A = Select All or you may select all frames by right-clicking on the timeline and from the menu Select All ) . With all frames selected (highlighted in yellow)

Image

you must now click on APPLY FX STACK .

After the FX stack finishes applying the keyframer effect you should be able to play back your movie and see the camera move.


The result would be something like this :

Image

(playback may be choppy because of the embedded Gif frame rate. At 24fps this should be smooth. )


This is about the simplest possible pan move you could do . Much more complex moves are possible with the KeyFramer , but for now see if you can just do something like this to get your bearings with using the KeyFramer tool. Once you understand the process of working with a different Source layer for the BG and how to Set and Apply the Keyframes then you should be able to figure out more advanced moves by trial and error.



.

Post Reply