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multipy mode difference

Posted: 31 Jan 2020, 04:29
by Hironori Takagi
I point out what I noticed while testing my custom panel.
That is about TVPaint's composite mode "multiply".
Can you solve the problem that is not displayed when exporting with transparent background?
Attach the image that compared to Photoshop.
Thank you.
200131_multiply_difference.jpg

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 31 Jan 2020, 14:35
by D.T. Nethery
+1 .

I have often noticed this odd behavior of TVPaint with layers that are in multiply blend mode . It's not possible to export them with transparency.

But it is possible with Photoshop . (and also Autodesk Sketchbook , Artrage, Gimp). So this should be possible with TVPaint , too, I would hope.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 31 Jan 2020, 15:32
by D.T. Nethery
This issue with how TVPaint applies blend modes such as Multiply goes back to another issue (from 2014) which never had a response from anyone at TVPaint, in this thread:

http://www.tvpaint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8738

Peter Wassink summed up the issue in the last post of that thread:
Peter Wassink wrote:
17 Feb 2015, 17:10
this issue... when exporting images with layers set in blend modes (other then Color) ...
I'm just wondering about the logic and desirability of the current behaviour
[in TVPaint] ?
The advantage of a "what you see is what you get" behaviour [as in Photoshop] is probably obvious,
but what is the advantage of the current behaviour in TVPaint? I suspect it has to do with some deeper level of logic?

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 11 Sep 2020, 16:49
by Xavier
Guys, could you please provide a scenario to reproduce this bug ?

Sorry, I'm only a developer :mrgreen:

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 09:12
by Hironori Takagi
please check this.
I advise you to check off "Background" in the export settings.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 10:16
by cgmodeler
Xavier wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 16:49
Guys, could you please provide a scenario to reproduce this bug ?

Sorry, I'm only a developer :mrgreen:
You have several layers with multiply mode on a transparent background

The resulting image when exported without background is empty, meaning that since multiply mode has nothing to blend it with on TVPAINT, the resulting image is blank.

The expected behavior is like in photoshop where the exported image is exported with a certain amount of transparency.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 10:24
by Xavier
Thanks ! working on it.

By the way it will be another multiply mode, since users already work(ed) on projects that rely on the current multiply mode.

And just for the info: actually, the current multiply mode is consistent with GIMP :wink:

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 21:48
by Xavier
Question : do we agree that for the bottom layer, when there is nothing or just the background below, the blending mode of the layer can only be "color" ? (I think I should lock the blendmode list for the first layer)

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 22:07
by slowtiger
If by first layer you mean the bottommost one, then yes, this makes sense.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 22:38
by cgmodeler
Xavier wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 21:48
Question : do we agree that for the first layer, when there is nothing or just the background below, the blending mode of the layer can only be "color" ? (I think I should lock the blendmode list for the first layer)
I think that can create workflow issues, if you're going to import resources from another software like photoshop, sai, gimp, krita, etc... and some of the bottom layers have a blending mode then it wont display properly on tvpaint since the bottom layer will be limited to color.

Also if you use it to share layers across projects you would like to keep that mode so the layer can be copied on another project.

I would recommend not to block a blendmode to a layer, you would be forced to create a bottom layer then the one you're going to copy on top etc... I can see a great ammount of issues arising because of this.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 20 Nov 2020, 09:25
by Peter Wassink
Xavier wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 21:48
Question : do we agree that for the first layer, when there is nothing or just the background below, the blending mode of the layer can only be "color" ? (I think I should lock the blendmode list for the first layer)
I agree. The blendoptions on the bottomlayer make no sense.

cgmodeler wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 22:38

I think that can create workflow issues, if you're going to import resources from another software like photoshop, sai, gimp, krita, etc... and some of the bottom layers have a blending mode then it wont display properly on tvpaint since the bottom layer will be limited to color.

Also if you use it to share layers across projects you would like to keep that mode so the layer can be copied on another project.

I would recommend not to block a blendmode to a layer, you would be forced to create a bottom layer then the one you're going to copy on top etc... I can see a great ammount of issues arising because of this.
Xavier doesn't mean locking it to a specific layer.... but to the bottomlayer... so that whatever layer happens to be on the bottom will then be set to 'color'

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 20 Nov 2020, 13:28
by Xavier
Thanks Peter for the clarification !
Sorry for the confusion with the vocabulary : yes, my question was about the bottommost layer and only this one ;)

So I'd do the same as with the switch to "display current layer" : when a layer is the bottommost, then its blending mode is overriden and set to "color" as long as it remains at the bottom.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 20 Nov 2020, 13:43
by cgmodeler
Peter Wassink wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 09:25

Xavier doesn't mean locking it to a specific layer.... but to the bottomlayer... so that whatever layer happens to be on the bottom will then be set to 'color'
I understood that, so the scenario I presented was when you bring resources from other software and open it for example a PSD ? Then your bottomlayer will be turned to another blending mode.

There are several case use for this, for example you bring a template with multiply from a psd it's 1 layer, the moment you open it on TVP the mode will be turned to color

Bring fx layers handpainted from a sequence that was worked in photoshop, sai, etc... with their blending modes set beforehand, the moment you import the file the bottom layer that had any blending mode, itll be turned to color too.

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 20 Nov 2020, 15:20
by Xavier
So you say that the blending mode of the bottom layer is actually meaningful ?

I'd like to understand, could you please provide an example ? a PSD file where the bottom layer blending ends up being different than color for instance ?
(just to mention : I'm a developer, not an artist, so it may be obvious to you but to me it's not)

Re: multipy mode difference

Posted: 20 Nov 2020, 15:23
by cgmodeler
Xavier wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 15:20
So you say that the blending mode of the bottom layer is actually meaningful ?

I'd like to understand, could you please provide an example ?
(just to mention : I'm a developer, not an artist, so it may be obvious to you but to me it's not)
Sure, I'm just finishing a deadline here but after done I can send a tvp/psd files with a case where it's used. Also I'm pretty sure Takagi San can input on this as well.