Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color Topic is solved

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D.T. Nethery
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Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by D.T. Nethery » 08 Aug 2020, 11:51

I have a strange issue I can not solve. I hope someone can help me discover why this happens.

I am importing PNG image sequences back and forth from TVPaint to After Effects, then back to TVPaint. Some of the PNG's have color that is lost when importing the images back into TVPaint.

The attached screen captures show the problem.

The first image is from an effects animation sequence. This shows what it looks like in AE . Notice the color tint on the image (this color is actually embedded on the image , the color tint is not an effect or a blend mode in AE).
efx_layer_in_AE.png
efx_layer_in_AE.png (54.56 KiB) Viewed 2751 times

Next , I export it from AE as PNG , in RGBA mode (transparent alpha channel) . The next image shows a preview of the image. You can see that the colors are intact on the exported PNG.

PNG_from_AE_with_transparency.jpg
PNG_from_AE_with_transparency.jpg (50.49 KiB) Viewed 2751 times
(I notice that the info in the above screen capture says Color Mode: RGB , but it is in fact RGBA with transparent alpha channel).

However, when I import the PNG sequence into TVPaint the effect layer is white , the color is gone . The transparency is not lost , but the color tint is not there.
Imported to TVPaint.jpg
(click image to see it larger)


Can anyone tell me why this happens and what can I do to prevent it ? The same issue does not occur going the other way , exporting from TVPaint as PNG images with RGBA transparency and then importing into AE . When I export animation layers from TVPaint as PNG sequence and then import the PNG sequence into AE the color is intact . So I wonder what is happening with the image when exporting from AE to TVP ?

.
MAC OS 10.12.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.8, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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slowtiger
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by slowtiger » 08 Aug 2020, 13:21

I just guess: try different "pre-multiply alpha" settings in AE during export.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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ematecki
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by ematecki » 08 Aug 2020, 13:36

Does AE supports different alpha modes for PNGs ?
PNG specs say they are never premultiplied.

Try to export it with the black background, to see if this is not a colorspace issue.
I know there is no ColorSync profile, but right now I have no other idea...
Quicktime is DEAD. Get over it and move on !

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by D.T. Nethery » 08 Aug 2020, 15:08

ematecki wrote:
08 Aug 2020, 13:36
Does AE supports different alpha modes for PNGs ?
PNG specs say they are never premultiplied.
Here are the options for exporting PNGs from AE:
AE_PNG_Export_Options.jpg
Changing these settings does not seem to make any difference.

ematecki wrote:
08 Aug 2020, 13:36
Try to export it with the black background, to see if this is not a colorspace issue.
I know there is no ColorSync profile, but right now I have no other idea...
When I exported it in RGB mode with the black background the colors are there when I bring it in to TVPaint.


-----

My workaround now is to export the layer from AE as .MOV with Apple ProRes 4444 codec , RGBA mode. That brings the images into TVPaint as transparent image sequence , with the color intact.

However , I would prefer to use PNG sequences. It's a mystery why the PNGs come into TVPaint as totally white , with no color. When I open the same PNGs from AE in Photoshop the color is there. It also works when importing the PNG files from AE into ArtRage and into Toonboom Harmony. Only TVPaint does not import the PNG's from AE correctly.

Attached is one of the PNG images exported from AE.



.
Attachments
second test from AE_00203.png
MAC OS 10.12.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.8, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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ematecki
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by ematecki » 08 Aug 2020, 21:31

I have no problem importing it, the colors are there.
With both TVPA 11.0.9 and 11.0.0
Mac Pro, macOS 10.12.6
Quicktime is DEAD. Get over it and move on !

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by D.T. Nethery » 08 Aug 2020, 23:50

ematecki wrote:
08 Aug 2020, 21:31
I have no problem importing it, the colors are there.
With both TVPA 11.0.9 and 11.0.0
Mac Pro, macOS 10.12.6
Interesting.

Wow ... what does that mean on my end ? What could it be ? I can import the PNGs from AE to Photoshop , ArtRage , and Toonboom Harmony with the color and transparency intact , but when the same PNGs are imported into TVPaint the color is absent . I'm on Mac OS 10.12.6 . My results in TVPaint 11.0.9 and 11.0.10 are identical -- no color in the PNGs , only pure white.
MAC OS 10.12.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.8, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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ematecki
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by ematecki » 09 Aug 2020, 08:07

Is that when you drag'n'drop the file from the finder ?
Quicktime is DEAD. Get over it and move on !

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by D.T. Nethery » 09 Aug 2020, 15:40

ematecki wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 08:07
Is that when you drag'n'drop the file from the finder ?
Yes, but I have the same results if I import the file by File Menu > Open/Import -- the PNGs imported into TVPaint are white , no color. The original PNGs exported from After Effects have color.
The issue only happens when importing the PNG sequence into TVPaint, not in Photoshop, ArtRage, or Toonboom Harmony.
MAC OS 10.12.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.8, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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slowtiger
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by slowtiger » 09 Aug 2020, 17:28

OK, you owe me an iced coffee.

Check your import settings in TVP. They're set to "alpha only", I bet.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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ematecki
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by ematecki » 09 Aug 2020, 19:06

I guess slowtiger hit the nail on the head...
Quicktime is DEAD. Get over it and move on !

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by D.T. Nethery » 09 Aug 2020, 22:59

slowtiger wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 17:28
OK, you owe me an iced coffee.

Check your import settings in TVP. They're set to "alpha only", I bet.
YES ! That's it ! Thank you , kind sir. (I'll buy you two iced coffees !)
ematecki wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 19:06
I guess slowtiger hit the nail on the head...
YES !



For anyone else who experiences this issue , check your import settings. Make sure the import is set to No PreMultiply.
Import_Settings_No_Premult.jpg

.
MAC OS 10.12.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.8, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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slowtiger
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Re: Imported PNG sequence from AE loses color

Post by slowtiger » 10 Aug 2020, 08:39

This was so much fun. When I finally came to testing your image file, I knew it had to be on the TVP side because everything else was eliminated already. It just took a conscious look at the import panel - something I hadn't done for years! And then I danced around a bit ...
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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