Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

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Johannes
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Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 27 Mar 2019, 22:40

Hello,
i am wondering if you are still updating TVPaint. It is very inconvenient that i have to use the windows version of the software as it is pretty useless on any recent and not so recent MacOS Device. So i'm wondering if you are planning on updating that anytime (soon).
I love working with TVPaint but i it's really dumb that i have to have a windows partition on my computers, that takes up a lot of space.

Best Johannes.

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ematecki
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by ematecki » 28 Mar 2019, 08:36

Can you be more explicit about what doesn't work on a modern Mac ?
You can choose your friends,
but you can't choose your family.

Johannes
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 01 Apr 2019, 20:37

Hello and thanks for your reply,

i'm using an imac with the resolution of 5120x2880. I created a screenshot for you with TVP and Photoshop showing the same file at 100% zoom. TV Paint does not use the full resolution instead the whole interface including the file is pixelated. This is not the case when i boot into windows and use the same monitor.

I already tried to tell the OS to run the App in low and hi resolution – no fix. please see the attached screenshots.

Interface pixelation and scaling up file:
_ 2019-04-01 at 21.35.28 (2).png
Low / high res settings
_ 2019-04-01 at 21.38.10.png
I already posted this issue a year ago. No update since then.
Best
Johannes

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JeremyN
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by JeremyN » 02 Apr 2019, 09:11

Hi, I have an iMac 5K at the office and TVPaint is not pixellated when I run it.
Did you try to upscale the interface ?
Settings.png
This screenshot has been made on a 5120x2880 screen with an interface scale of 2
Settings.png (83.77 KiB) Viewed 4839 times
Please,
go to preferences -> interface -> interface scale and change it to 2 (or 3 but it will be really big in this case !)
And be sure to not run the software in "low resolution".

Feel free to say if it's better or not for you.
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Johannes
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 02 Apr 2019, 21:52

Hello,

i set the interface scaling to 2 and ran the software in low resolution and in 'not low resolution'. The interface is scaled but that does not help anything. Can you post a screenshot of two apps side by side from your 5k iMac at work?
_ 2019-04-02 at 22.55.46 (2).png
Best
Johannes

Johannes
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 02 Apr 2019, 22:03

I made another screenshot. Photoshop and TVPAint are at a 100% zoom in Photoshop the file takes up 300x300 'physical' pixels in TVpaint 600x600 so you never get a crisp 100% view which uses the available pixels.
_ 2019-04-02 at 23.01.58 (2).png

mclinton
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by mclinton » 03 Apr 2019, 07:21

I am also having this exact problem on a 5k iMac. Everything is slightly pixelated when I look at the interface close up. All of my other applications like Adobe CC, Clip Studio, Moho, and Harmony are all very clear and look nice. I'm an old Mirage user and I've only been tinkering with the TV Paint Demo version over many years. But the Demo version doesn't let me adjust my preferences for scaling. It's greyed out. I'm glad this topic came up because with the way the interface looks a bit fuzzy I've avoided putting much thought into buying the program and have gravitated to some of the other software. I will be interested to see if this topic is resolved.

EDIT:
Never mind about the preferences being greyed out. I have found them under Edit > Preferences. Preferences under TVPaint Animation 11 Pro are greyed out - that's what I was looking at. I'll report back about scaling...

Okay, I tried setting the scaling to 2 and it made everything very large and there was pixelation. I'm seeing the same thing Johannes posted in his pictures.

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JeremyN
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by JeremyN » 03 Apr 2019, 09:01

Hi, here is a screenshot of my desktop with TVPaint (interface scale is 1) and photoshop. Each project is 1500x1500 and each zoom factor is 100%.
screenshot.png
Strange your 1500x1500 project is "bigger" on your screen than mine.
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mclinton
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by mclinton » 03 Apr 2019, 09:36

Here is a screenshot of my computer. Photoshop looks so crisp and clear on my computer, much more crisp than JeremyN's screenshot. I don't understand what is going on since we're all using 5k iMacs. TVPaint looks fuzzy compared to my other software.
TVPaint_Photoshop.png

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slowtiger
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by slowtiger » 03 Apr 2019, 10:56

It's quite simple. Some time ago, computer monitors were manufactured more or less all in the same range of screen resolution, which means a pixel had a defined real world size. Software UI were designed to look good and useable at that size.

Then came along the first "Retina" displays, and those 4K or even larger screens. The pixels of these devices were only half the size or even smaller than pixels on older screens. Older software is displayed half size on these screens, naturally, because the UI was never meant to get scaled - it was optimized for a certain size.

Now to get the UI elements in useable (readable!) size on these new devices again, there's 2 ways. One is to have the whole software redesigned, give it a second set of icons and interface elements in the new size, and program a routine which detects the correct screen resolution to display the right set of UI elements (this is what Adobe does. Very expensive).

The other way is simpler: software tells system to scale it's appearence by a factor of 2 or 3. This means each pixel of the UI elements is displayed on 2x2 or 3x3 pixels of the device, giving it a useable size again. This is what TVP does. (Some software has this setting in its prefs, other software uses the system-wide scaling.)

Your artwork resolution doesn't change. It's just that the 1:1 setting gives you a smaller display now since each pixel of the bitmap is mapped exactly on 1 pixel of display. Use the "fit window" setting instead.

Now you should know what's going on.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

Johannes
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 03 Apr 2019, 19:20

Hi JeremyN,
what MacOS Version do you use (I'm on Mojave 10.14.3)? Your Photoshop Interface has half the size i use but the file is shown in the correct size in both cases. Thats the thing that is not working with TVPAint. Actually i don't mind the pixelated interface but the working file should be shown in correct size at 1:1 pixel ratio. @slowtiger thats not the problem, everything is fine in the windows version of the software it's just on my mac that it is using scaling. Thats why a 300x300 px square is displayed as if it was 600x600.
screenshot.png

Johannes
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 03 Apr 2019, 20:01

Hi jeremyN, i just noticed that all you interface, even the menu bar is much smaller than my interface, so it seems to be a MacOS setting. But even if i change the scale in system settings i do not get the result you have.
Menu bar compared:
screenshot-scaled.png
Setting scale to 'More space'
_ 2019-04-03 at 21.03.11.png
Result:
_ 2019-04-03 at 21.04.05 (2).png

mclinton
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by mclinton » 03 Apr 2019, 22:27

slowtiger wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 10:56
It's quite simple. Some time ago, computer monitors were manufactured more or less all in the same range of screen resolution, which means a pixel had a defined real world size. Software UI were designed to look good and useable at that size.

Then came along the first "Retina" displays, and those 4K or even larger screens. The pixels of these devices were only half the size or even smaller than pixels on older screens. Older software is displayed half size on these screens, naturally, because the UI was never meant to get scaled - it was optimized for a certain size.

Now to get the UI elements in useable (readable!) size on these new devices again, there's 2 ways. One is to have the whole software redesigned, give it a second set of icons and interface elements in the new size, and program a routine which detects the correct screen resolution to display the right set of UI elements (this is what Adobe does. Very expensive).

The other way is simpler: software tells system to scale it's appearence by a factor of 2 or 3. This means each pixel of the UI elements is displayed on 2x2 or 3x3 pixels of the device, giving it a useable size again. This is what TVP does. (Some software has this setting in its prefs, other software uses the system-wide scaling.)

Your artwork resolution doesn't change. It's just that the 1:1 setting gives you a smaller display now since each pixel of the bitmap is mapped exactly on 1 pixel of display. Use the "fit window" setting instead.

Now you should know what's going on.
That's what I figured was happening with the interface all along, but some of the comments in this thread made me think TVPaint's interface was capable of displaying perfectly on a 5k screen. The earlier comment about it looking better when booting a Mac with Windows, and then the comment about TVPaint not looking pixelated on one of the TVPaint office iMacs. That was very confusing.

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JeremyN
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Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by JeremyN » 04 Apr 2019, 07:41

Johannes wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 20:01
Hi jeremyN, i just noticed that all you interface, even the menu bar is much smaller than my interface, so it seems to be a MacOS setting. But even if i change the scale in system settings i do not get the result you have.
Menu bar compared:
screenshot-scaled.png

Setting scale to 'More space'
_ 2019-04-03 at 21.03.11.png

Result:
_ 2019-04-03 at 21.04.05 (2).png
Hi Johannes.
Well, before selecting a setting on this panel:
settings-1.png
Press "Alt" then click on scale and you will get this:
Settings-2.png
Press Alt before selecting "scale"
It's, to my mind, far more convenient (and clear) for selecting a screen definition. For me, Apple settings (like "more space") means nothing so I always use the "default" setting and use the workaround described above to change the screen definition.
Mac Developer

Johannes
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Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 12:11

Re: Mac High resolution monitors not supported in 2019

Post by Johannes » 04 Apr 2019, 10:08

Hi JeremyN,
JeremyN wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 07:41
It's, to my mind, far more convenient (and clear) for selecting a screen definition. For me, Apple settings (like "more space") means nothing so I always use the "default" setting and use the workaround described above to change the screen definition.
This way TVP indeed uses 1:1 pixel. But this settings make every other app and the OS a pain in the a**** to use. So i'd rephrase my question: Will there be an update to use 1:1 pixel like for example photoshop or most apps besides TVP? It would be okay for me if just TVP is using this tiny interface but when everything is that tiny i get headaches very quickly:
_ 2019-04-04 at 11.06.04 (2).png
Best
Johannes

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