multipy mode difference

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Xavier
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 20 Nov 2020, 15:29

great, of course I can be patient I have many other things on the plate ;)
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Peter Wassink
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 23 Nov 2020, 14:48

cgmodeler wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 13:43
Peter Wassink wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 09:25

Xavier doesn't mean locking it to a specific layer.... but to the bottomlayer... so that whatever layer happens to be on the bottom will then be set to 'color'
I understood that, so the scenario I presented was when you bring resources from other software and open it for example a PSD ? Then your bottomlayer will be turned to another blending mode.
the bottom layer will always keeps the blend mode that the artist chose.
... just for internal use TVPaint will treat is as if its on color. (like it does with the Display Current function)
so you can set your bottomlayer to multiply for instance (tvpaint will ignore this because the layer happens to be the bottomlayer.

then... when you import another element that goes under the layer... that layer is no longer the bottomlayer so now tvpaint will again treat it as its set blendmode, which was multiply.
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by cgmodeler » 23 Nov 2020, 16:03

Peter Wassink wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 14:48
cgmodeler wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 13:43
Peter Wassink wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 09:25

Xavier doesn't mean locking it to a specific layer.... but to the bottomlayer... so that whatever layer happens to be on the bottom will then be set to 'color'
I understood that, so the scenario I presented was when you bring resources from other software and open it for example a PSD ? Then your bottomlayer will be turned to another blending mode.
the bottom layer will always keeps the blend mode that the artist chose.
... just for internal use TVPaint will treat is as if its on color. (like it does with the Display Current function)
so you can set your bottomlayer to multiply for instance (tvpaint will ignore this because the layer happens to be the bottomlayer.

then... when you import another element that goes under the layer... that layer is no longer the bottomlayer so now tvpaint will again treat it as its set blendmode, which was multiply.
I see what you mean, I thought Xavier meant to lock the mode only to color.

THanks for claryfing Peter! :)
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Xavier
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 23 Nov 2020, 20:54

So do we have an agreement ?
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by cgmodeler » 23 Nov 2020, 23:12

Xavier wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 20:54
So do we have an agreement ?
Nice Xavier, thank you!
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 25 Nov 2020, 11:00

ready soon, hopefully in the next beta :)
multiply.png
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 25 Nov 2020, 13:09

But why not leave the Blendmode label and selection options where they are, for that bottom layer?
TVP can just ignore what it says.

That way its more flexible for the user.
in your example you can set the bottom layer (yello red) to multiply (but as its on the bottom it keeps behaving as color)
But then when you later drag a layer under it, it will immediately behave as you had set it.
it makes it easier to see what happens if you duplicate the bottom layer for instance... you already now what blendmode it will have.

in terms of workflow i would really want the bottom layer to have a Blendmode preset... just not the blendmode behaviour



the way you show us here, you are forced to do it later.
curious what others think.
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 25 Nov 2020, 13:14

to clarify...

what happens if you drag the top layer in your example down...?
it becomes the bottom layer... only you can no longer see what blendmode it used to be.

and what happens when you shift it back up ?
will it still be multiply?

Or is shifting a layer tot the bottom a 'blendmode reset?' I think that is not desirable.
So why not leave that label there?
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 25 Nov 2020, 14:36

If you drag the above layer below the bottommost layer, it becomes the bottommost layer so its blending mode is hidden (though it is still there) and TVPaint considers that it is "color".

I'll try to show with a video, it will be more explicit.
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 25 Nov 2020, 16:59

i understand, i am just arguing that you should not hide it (even though it is considered to be blendmode 'color')
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 25 Nov 2020, 17:03

I understand what you are doing.
and it is a visually elegant solution... but as a user you loose some control and oversight


what i mean is i would like it to be like this:
If you drag the above layer below the bottommost layer, it becomes the bottommost layer so its blending mode changes to color but it would still visibly remain whatever blendmode it was set to before (So it would still say for instance 'multiply' even though TVPaint considers that it is "color".)
because even when the blendmode on a bottomlayer makes no sense.
the blendmode is often chosen to go with a specific layercontent... and this doesn't suddenly change..
Ansd the layerorder can very easily be changed in TVP . so it helps to see what blendmode a layer is in, regardless of where it sits.

It is usefull information and allows manipulationg layerorder with more control then with your idea of a hidden blendmode.
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 25 Nov 2020, 21:33

Peter Wassink wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 17:03
and it is a visually elegant solution... but as a user you loose some control and oversight
My preference is not to be taken into consideration ;) I'm looking for the best feasible way to answer your needs with TVPaint.

So here's the current state of development (I understand that this is not what Peter explained) :
layerswitch-2020-11-25_20.40.59.mp4
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 25 Nov 2020, 22:07

Second proposal, the blending mode name remains and is grayed. The contextual help is also a updated :
layerswitch2-2020-11-25_21.21.03.mp4
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Peter Wassink » 25 Nov 2020, 22:26

Yes greyed out!
This second proposal is even better as a UI then my idea, because it also signals that the blendmode is not actually doing anything while at the same time it tells the user what the layer will do if you move it up!.


Wonderfull Xavier this is great! Good work. :mrgreen:
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Re: multipy mode difference

Post by Xavier » 25 Nov 2020, 22:27

Thanks :)
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