Export resolution issue

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David_Fine
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 12 Jan 2018, 23:38

Okay, this is now clearer. Thank you. The camera setting is entirely irrelevant IF I am exporting the project and choosing my export resolution at export. If I am telling export to use the camera, then it will export the camera resolution. Having said that, I can still export the camera view and tell the export dialogue to use say, 1080 HD, which will override whatever the camera is set at, so in that case, using the camera for output can still make the camera setting in camera parameters irrelevant. That's the confusing part, but at least I know that it's meant to be a bit of a contradiction. That is, the camera setting can be used on export, but you can override it or use Project. Given that I can override in the export setting, what is the point of changing the camera setting in the tool? Seems there is no point, but again, would like to confirm if I need to be checking the setting because I notice that from scene to scene, the camera setting tends to be different, even though I have not gone into the settings to choose.

Part two of this question: Given that I have scenes of varying resolution depending on the character detail and how tight I want the field, how can I accurately output 1:1 resolution when the camera is not full frame, but say, cropped in a little? That is, a project which is 3000 pixels wide but composed a little tighter. It might be about 2800 pixels wide, but I can't see anyway of confirming the exact pixel dimensions of the frame I choose so that I can output without recalculating the size, but simply at the maximum 1:1 resolution. (Don't ask me why I want to do that, but I do. :) )
David Fine
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Snowden Fine Animation Inc.
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Animark
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 13 Jan 2018, 00:38

Hey David, for your second question please try to understand my last answer. If you do so you will get exactly that part of your project which is framed by the cam. And its in the projects native resolution. I know, it's a bit difficult and I also needed some time in the past to understand.
Animark wrote:
10 Jan 2018, 09:07
1. take the value of the zoom (let's say 120%) and set the zoom to 100%
2. recalculate a new cam resolution: 1920 x 1.2 = 2304 px
3. set the cam resolution to 2304 px
4. render this frame and it should be in the native resolution of the project
When the camera zoom is exactly 100%, then it has your native resolution.

Good Luck!
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David_Fine
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 13 Jan 2018, 02:04

This is very helpful, thank you, but I think the math needs to be done a different way for how I am working. I do understand that in order to get native resolution, I should set the camera to the same size as the project, but that assumes the camera is exactly the full project field size. In this case, I want to crop in tighter to reduce the field in the scene, so I do that visually by grabbing the camera box and making it smaller. When I am happy, I can look at the zoom ratio on the camera tool and I see that, in this case, it shows me it's now 81.87%. So I presume to get native resolution, I have to divide the original resolution of 3840 wide by 81.87%. That gives me 3143.8, so if my understanding is correct, that is the number I should set in the export dialogue. Having said that, I have to round it to 3144, which is very slightly different, but will that mean that the export is recalculating the pixels in the image and degrading the image quality in any way? If so, is there a way to avoid this? Is there an output setting that simply tells TVPaint to use the camera, with no conversion? Ah, now I know yo are going to say that No Conversion is an option already, but it doesn't seem to do that because when the camera is zoomed in, the No Conversion setting still says 3840, which is the full screen resolution, not the cropped in resolution, so it is, in fact, converting the cropped image up from 3144 to 3840, right?

If the above is correct, then I think I am getting somewhere. Thanks again for your help.
David Fine
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Snowden Fine Animation Inc.
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Animark
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 13 Jan 2018, 11:38

No, the cam is not exact the size of your project. It has the size you gave her by your own hand. In my opinion this is the only way to get what you want. But I would do it with the cam and it's 100% possibility rather than doing the math in the output - cause of possible decimals and rounded conversation. As said before, as long the cam has 100% and as long you don't do a conversion, you will get a native resolution when exporting. You are free to give the cam every size you like. With my little math you're able to keep your cameras scene design. It doesn't matter which size your project is. It's so easy to try it out and to see what is happen.

Here is an example that shows how to get native resolution. Cam and project size can be total different.
camOutput_988754875.JPG
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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by D.T. Nethery » 13 Jan 2018, 13:52

David_Fine wrote:
12 Jan 2018, 22:36
Thanks for the thorough info. I do understand the principal of resolution, but what I am not understanding is what the camera parameter settings have to do with the output because I set the output when I use the export feature. If the Camera is set at 1920 on a scene which is actually 3840 wide and the output setting on export is set to 3840, then I will get a file which is 3840 wide, so what is achieved by changing the camera parameter settings? Currently, they seem to default to 1080. Do I need to change that? Will changing that have any impact on the output quality or is it entirely determined by the chosen resolution setting in the export dialogue? I hope my dilemma is clear. What is the Camera Parameter setting used for if I choose the output resolution in the export window?
It doesn't have to default to 1920 x 1080. There are a number of presets for the camera parameters , including HDTV 1920 x 1080 , but you may set the camera parameters to a custom size. So instead of setting it to the preset 1920 x 1080 set the camera to 3840 x 2160. This will now be the size the project is output to with the Camera View enabled.
Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 8.24.38 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 8.24.38 AM.jpg (30.68 KiB) Viewed 2382 times
Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 9.03.47 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 9.03.47 AM.jpg (42.85 KiB) Viewed 2378 times
Will changing that have any impact on the output quality or is it entirely determined by the chosen resolution setting in the export dialogue?
As long as the project dimensions are equal to or smaller than the Camera dimensions the quality of the image is not impacted . So if your Camera dimensions are 3840 x 2160 and your project dimensions are 3840 x 2160 (or larger) then you're good. If your project dimensions were 1920 x 1080 and your Camera is set to 3840 x 2160 then you will be enlarging the image when you export with Camera view set to 3840 x 2160 , so that would impact the image quality.
Last edited by D.T. Nethery on 13 Jan 2018, 14:25, edited 3 times in total.
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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by D.T. Nethery » 13 Jan 2018, 14:17

David_Fine wrote:
12 Jan 2018, 23:38
Given that I have scenes of varying resolution depending on the character detail and how tight I want the field, how can I accurately output 1:1 resolution when the camera is not full frame, but say, cropped in a little? That is, a project which is 3000 pixels wide but composed a little tighter. It might be about 2800 pixels wide, but I can't see anyway of confirming the exact pixel dimensions of the frame I choose so that I can output without recalculating the size, but simply at the maximum 1:1 resolution. (Don't ask me why I want to do that, but I do. :) )
Ok, but even if you have TVPaint project files composed at sizes of varying dimensions depending on how tight you want to field in , the OUTPUT dimensions must be exactly the same for each scene or it will be impossible to edit the scenes together consistently . So upfront you decide on the aspect ratio and dimensions you will use for the final output , let's say 16:9 aspect ratio
at 2K = 2048 x 1152 . This means no scene will be composed smaller than 2048 x 1152 (for scenes with locked-off camera) but some may be composed larger , in the cases where you will field-in tighter , so in some cases if you were going to zoom-in as much as 200% (equivalent of a move from "12 Field" to "6 Field" with reference to ye olde "12 Field graticule/field guide" ) your scene would be composed at 4096 x 2304 to maintain maximum image sharpness over the entire range of the zoom-in ... if it was a more extreme zoom-in of 400% (equivalent of "12F" to "3F") then the scene would be composed at 8192 x 4608 ... however in each case the Camera size would be set to the final output resolution of 2048 x 1152. So then every .mov file delivered to the editor will be 2048 x 1152 and all will cut together consistently.

In this example , the project size has been scaled up 200% to 4096 x 2304 , but the Camera parameters are 2048 x 1152 (the intended output size) . Any camera fielding from "12F" to "6F" will maintain sharp image quality in this set up. When it's exported it will be exported with the Camera View of 2048 x 1152 :
Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 9.20.39 AM.jpg

There's a parallel discussion about project size ("what's the best project size to use") going on here: https://www.tvpaint.com/forum/viewtopic ... 65#p106589 .

.
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David_Fine
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 13 Jan 2018, 20:20

Well, no, the output dimensions don't have to be the same for each scene. Maybe I want to import scenes to After Effects for further treatment, so I want to output at the best quality native resolution. That's the issue. My scenes are of varying resolution depending on the content. Thanks for the link to the other thread, but it is really about a different matter. That thread is asking about ideal output resolutions for different final uses. That's not my issue.
David Fine
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2dbert
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by 2dbert » 15 Jan 2018, 15:05

Part two of this question: Given that I have scenes of varying resolution depending on the character detail and how tight I want the field, how can I accurately output 1:1 resolution when the camera is not full frame, but say, cropped in a little? That is, a project which is 3000 pixels wide but composed a little tighter. It might be about 2800 pixels wide, but I can't see anyway of confirming the exact pixel dimensions of the frame I choose so that I can output without recalculating the size, but simply at the maximum 1:1 resolution. (Don't ask me why I want to do that, but I do. :) )
Couldn't you use he crop tool on a camera field preview to find out the exact width and height of your A and B field of the zoom out? Then you will still have to decide whether to go with the smaller A field so nothing will be blown up or the bigger B field in order to have nothing calculated smaller than your original, of course.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 15 Jan 2018, 19:32

Oh wow, that's a great tip. The crop tool allows me to match the camera view. I can then crop the project, which makes a new, cropped version, and then output that project 1:1. Perfect! Thank you. So deceptively simple. Of course, as I said before, this only applies to held shots, not moves. For moves, I can still use the crop tool to determine the resolution of the smallest field and then output to match or exceed that pixel dimension so that I know I am outputting at the highest resolution possible for the tightest composition.
David Fine
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Snowden Fine Animation Inc.
Vancouver, Canada

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