lame lemec's drawings!

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hisko
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 17:50

lemec wrote: Ya might also want to pick up a USB game controller, a manfrotto variable friction arm and a couple of super clamps while you're at it:
Well, it should be simple for me, because I don't do the commercial storyboards at home. In the last two years I worked for over 80 advertising- and productioncompanies and I always have to work on location. So I take my wacomtablet and my laptop with me and that should be it.
If you think that it will be difficult to draw without the manfrotto arm and the game controller, maybe I'll have to cancel my order of the artpen.

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 18:07

It can wait -- just to be clear you don't HAVE to have a Cintiq if you're used to using the Intuos 3 tablet -- it's just that ya gotta help me tune the thing. I can do a lot of the technical crap over Windows Remote Assistance (opening control panels and changing settings) but I still need a live person in meatspace to hold the stylus to see if the thing is responding to twist and pressure, etc.

With the Cintiq, however, that simplifies things a lot.

Foot pedals also make things a lot easier to use, but if you have some sort of joystick analog slider controls (like dual throttle pedals for flight sims - but try to get something that isn't self-centering) that would work, and it'd be a lot easier to set up than the Behringer FCB 1010. (I recently edited my previous post)

I currently have three foot pedals - two non-sprung analogue pedals that are used to "tune" pressure and brush size - and I can use them in mid-stroke. The last pedal is a sprung "button" which the DLL treats as a "right-click". Kind of essential, since the 6D stylus has no side switch. When holding down the pedal and clicking the standard stylus' side switch, it toggles size locking on the standard stylus.
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 18:11

The game controller is *not* essential for getting the 6D stylus to work. What it does do is it puts undo/redo/transport controls/pan/rotate/zoom all in one place.

The reason I use the game controller is because my right hand is usually occupied with a stylus and the game controller greatly simplifies sending shortcuts since I don't have to let go of the stylus for complex two-key combos. It cuts down on fatigue.

The Manfrotto arm just holds that game controller in *just* the right place - I use it because the sony controller is meant to be held with two hands. If you had a game controller that sat on a tabletop with a solid base, it'd be just as good.
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 18:14

OHHh.. I see, I see... You need a portable set-up.

Okay, well... You've got a laptop... Does it have a bluetooth adaptor in it? If so, you can get a wiimote and I can hook up its axes to tune brush pressure/size instead, and hook up the controls to undo/redo/panning. That sort of thing wouldn't be that difficult since I have a wiimote right here and I can do most of the tuning myself. Again, using game controllers is completely OPTIONAL. You don't have to have one for the DLL to work, and you can add one at a later date.

Now I *DONT* know if this driver works on TabletPC computers on Windows XP TabletPC Edition or Windows Vista -- they may access the hardware differently somehow!! You'd have to help me run a quick test to see if the software is accessing the wacom_tablet.dll

You'll also find that the Cintiq 12WX is NOT nearly as portable as an Intuos tablet because of the breakout box and having to carry an extra monitor cable with you. The driver can be tuned to work with an Intuos.
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 18:55

lemec wrote: You'll also find that the Cintiq 12WX is NOT nearly as portable as an Intuos tablet because of the breakout box and having to carry an extra monitor cable with you. The driver can be tuned to work with an Intuos.
Most of my collegue-visualisers use a cintiq, and they carry it around by bike or car, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Don't you have trouble with the relatively small screen-area? 12 inch sounds like a dwarf besides my 30 inch.
I use a 17 inch on my laptop for storyboarding, but 12 inch......

The gamecontroller of Wii would be redundant if I just use the keyboard for shortcuts, or not?

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 19:21

Getting used to the 12WX's small area did take time getting used to, and I occasionally find myself wanting a larger screen. But then I got it when my previous Cintiq 18SX blew up on me in the middle of a job but 21UX was just not something I could afford. But then, the 12WX's lightweight form factor gave it a few unexpected uses (like being able to draw with the pad on my lap). Still, a regular USB tablet is something that you can chuck into a backpack and plug directly into a laptop without having to hunt for a wall socket.

Keyboard shortcuts worked just fine for me - until I switched over and found that with the game controller, I never had to look away from the screen to hit keys, and didn't have to take the stylus away from the Cintiq to execute the more complex commands.

But, it's like you say, anything to speed up the process of having to go over a ton of drawings, right?

The Wiimote's tilt sensors can be hooked up to control brush size or pressure -- meaning you can twist the controller like a "knob" to dial back brush size, etc. Yeah, you can use keyboard shortcuts to change brush size, but what would you rather do - hit the "brush size reduce" key a bunch of times or just use a wiimote to "crank" the brush size down? It's all about being able to set brush settings by feel - not having to look away at some panel, etc. It's like driving a car - you want controls that don't require you to take your eyes off the road.
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 19:29

lemec wrote: But, it's like you say, anything to speed up the process of having to go over a ton of drawings, right?
You are right about that, but you are taking it to rare extremes buddy.

It's strange that there is nothing between 12 inch and 21 inch. 1100 euro for a tiny 12 inch seems too much. I would rather pay 1600 for a 17 inch. There are some lesser 'screentablets' that use 512 pressurelevels, but it's probably not possible to use the artmarker with those tablets. I'm going to find out.

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 19:51

As long as the tablet is an "intuos 3", then the art marker will work with it. So it won't work with any graphire or bamboo tablets, nor will it work with a tabletPC, Cintiq 18SX or 15X. They also have a DTF series of tablet displays

http://www.wacom.com/pendisplays/DTF720.php
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 20:04

lemec wrote: They also have a DTF series of tablet displays

http://www.wacom.com/pendisplays/DTF720.php
The artmarker doesn't work with that one as far as I can see.

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 20:06

Did you find it a big difference, working with an intuos3 and the 12wx (or the 18x)?
I can imagine that it works faster with a cintiq, but I should try it first I guess.

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 20:17

Whether you work on a Cintiq or an Intous, you have to always be mindful of where the cursor is -- I know this sounds dumb, but this is especially important on the Cintiq because it's easy to be misled by the "real world position" of the stylus -- the cursor itself may be just a millimeter out of alignment with the stylus tip, but it drives some people batty. This is why I made a plugin to display a full-screen crosshair, and have such a large, high-visibility mouse pointer.

Also, your hand will get in the way. This isn't a problem for people who normally work with traditional mediums, but it means you have to get used to either rotating the display or having to lift your hand, spot where you need to go, place your stylus back on the tablet, take note of the cursor position, and then drag the stylus to where it has to go. It takes a lot of discipline to be able to work within your "blind spot".
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 19 Jan 2009, 20:35

I only work digital for two years now, so it wouldn't take much effort to go back to lifting my hand to see what's under it, but the cursorproblem seems irritating.
Did you ever consider going back to a tablet?

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 19 Jan 2009, 21:38

hisko wrote:I only work digital for two years now, so it wouldn't take much effort to go back to lifting my hand to see what's under it, but the cursorproblem seems irritating.
Did you ever consider going back to a tablet?
Although I would never consider going back to a tablet, I haven't found a better alternative to a Cintiq.
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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by hisko » 20 Jan 2009, 08:53

Ha ha, nice commercial!
Thanks, I'll get one immediately.

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Re: lame lemec's drawings!

Post by lemec » 20 Jan 2009, 11:27

6 Things WACOM needs to add/fix (video)
  1. Auto Monitor Switching - I spent a few weeks writing a utility to deal with this.
  2. Automatic touchstrip disabling - Something silly that I discovered within the first day of use. Sometimes I wonder if WACOM ever tests their own products.
  3. Calibration for high resolutions - When you calibrate your Cintiq, do it at 640x480, then set your screen res back up to 1280x800 (or whatever your model supports)
  4. Incorrect twist on 6D Art Pen - Fixed by my hacked DLL. People who notice that nothing is wrong have never used a brush that used twist.
  5. Erratic Tilt - Fixed by my hacked DLL. People who notice that nothing is wrong have never used a brush that used tilt.
  6. Useless 6D Art Pen Altitude - Changed to "tip contact factor" by my hacked DLL. People who notice that nothing is wrong have never used the 6D stylus or a good old chisel tip marker, for that matter. Evidently there's nobody on the WACOM dev team who's handled a chisel tip marker.
  • If I sound fussy, it's because it's my main piece of equipment. I use it to get EVERYTHING done - C'MON, it affects EVERY line that I draw, and that's what artists are paid to deliver. Lines.
  • If I sound frustrated, it's because I wasted a lot of time with useless WACOM tech support staff who couldn't get anything done.
  • If I sound desperate, it's because I've been dealing with some of these issues for over 5 years, all on my own.
  • If I sound cheated, it's because I went through 6 styli for my 18SX, before I determined that the TABLET was probably a lemon. Those things are ninety bucks a pop.
  • If I sound I angry, it's because I spent countless unpaid hours of development time to make the hacked DLL and the auto monitor switching utility.
  • If I sound entitled, it's because cintiqs and replacement styli are damned expensive. I expect results from tech support, but precious little comes from them.
  • If I sound like I have a grudge against WACOM, it's because my 18SX's monitor component died last fall, and after another useless WACOM tech support staff call, they never got back to me about repairing it.
(Win7x64, TVP Pro 11 32-bit)

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