Default Timeline zoom ratio

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D.T. Nethery
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Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by D.T. Nethery » 20 May 2016, 12:10

I would like to request that when a project is opened in TVPaint the default view of the frames on the Timeline is to the fully expanded view , rather than opening in compacted view . In my experience the compacted view has been a source of confusion to many new users (students) , because they don't know about (or forget about) how to expand the timeline view by clicking & dragging on the the interactive zoom ratio button (magnifying glass icon in TVPaint 11 / "Z" button in TVPaint 10) .

I have noticed that I get this same question/complaint over and over from numerous new users of TVPaint , saying they experience frustration when they open a project in TVPaint and can not do anything with the frames on the timeline because the frames are smushed together and the frame "handles" are not visible , so I think this behavior is something about TVPaint that is counter-intuitive. The developers and long-time users know about it (the zoom ratio button to expand or compact the timeline) but new users do not know about it , and it baffles them until someone shows them. I'm sure it is mentioned in the User Manual and in one of the video tutorials, but it doesn't seem to be something that most new users intuitively understand.

As it is now when a project is saved and then re-opened in TVPaint the default view is to have the frames on the timeline compacted .

Image

The user must know to click & drag the interactive zoom ratio button (magnifying glass ) to expand the frames .

Image

Image

I'm asking that the default view of the frames on the timeline be fully expanded when the project first opens (then the user has the option to compact the frames if desired, using the interactive zoom ratio button) .

Image


.
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meslin
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by meslin » 23 May 2016, 02:50

I'm not sure if there's software patent on something like this, but Ableton Live has a pretty amazing navigation system that's similar to the TVPaint (or Photoshop) navigation panel--a thumbnail with a draggable zoom-region box--but it's as wide as the timeline itself and squished to show as many tracks("layers") as possible. This could be incredibly useful getting around longer clips, especially if colors were set up intelligently by the user.
Check out the screenshot I've attached.
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ableton arrangement view.png
ableton arrangement view.png (62.79 KiB) Viewed 8840 times

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schwarzgrau
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by schwarzgrau » 23 May 2016, 08:09

I'm not sure if I understand what the screenshot shows. The top part is the timeline zoomed out as much as possible and the bottom shows the same timeline zoomed in as much as possible ?
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meslin
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by meslin » 24 May 2016, 13:22

I'm sorry about that. The bottom box just confused matters.
Here's a simpler image (also pulled from Google images) that demonstrates the premise of the "dual scale timeline view" as I've decided to call it. :roll:
Attachments
ableton arrange view box.jpg
Little box up top is draggable and moves the lower view in real time.
ableton arrange view box.jpg (60.02 KiB) Viewed 8813 times

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by D.T. Nethery » 25 May 2016, 18:56

I think those are interesting ideas for managing how the Timeline in TVPaint could be displayed , but right now I'm just requesting that the DEFAULT display when opening a saved TVP project is that the frames on the Timeline would be displayed in the fully Expanded mode , rather than in the Compacted mode to avoid confusion for new users who do not know about the Interactive Zoom Ratio button (magnifying glass icon) to adjust the Timeline view from compacted to expanded.

TVPaint Developers : is this possible ?

Hopefully this could be a Preference setting that can be checked off to activate ("Open Timeline in Compacted Mode" ) for the users who prefer having the Timeline open in compacted mode and who know about the presence of the Interactive Zoom Ratio button (magnifying glass icon) to adjust the expanding or compressing of the Timeline frames.

As it is now , the Interactive Zoom Ratio button is often over-looked or forgotten about (even if it was shown at some point in a tutorial on the interface functions)

Image

The fact that I have so many new users who seem to be baffled by their saved TVPaint projects opening up with the Timeline compacted indicates that this would be a behavior that would be better to modify, so it is a Preference option that the user must purposely select to have the Timeline open in compacted mode. (by default the Timeline opens in fully Expanded view , unless the user changes it to "Open Timeline in Compacted Mode" in Preferences ) .
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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by D.T. Nethery » 05 Jun 2016, 14:02

D.T. Nethery wrote:I think those are interesting ideas for managing how the Timeline in TVPaint could be displayed , but right now I'm just requesting that the DEFAULT display when opening a saved TVP project is that the frames on the Timeline would be displayed in the fully Expanded mode , rather than in the Compacted mode to avoid confusion for new users who do not know about the Interactive Zoom Ratio button (magnifying glass icon) to adjust the Timeline view from compacted to expanded.

TVPaint Developers : is this possible ?

Hopefully this could be a Preference setting that can be checked off to activate ("Open Timeline in Compacted Mode" ) for the users who prefer having the Timeline open in compacted mode and who know about the presence of the Interactive Zoom Ratio button (magnifying glass icon) to adjust the expanding or compressing of the Timeline frames.

As it is now , the Interactive Zoom Ratio button is often over-looked or forgotten about (even if it was shown at some point in a tutorial on the interface functions)

Image

The fact that I have so many new users who seem to be baffled by their saved TVPaint projects opening up with the Timeline compacted indicates that this would be a behavior that would be better to modify, so it is a Preference option that the user must purposely select to have the Timeline open in compacted mode. (by default the Timeline opens in fully Expanded view , unless the user changes it to "Open Timeline in Compacted Mode" in Preferences ) .
BUMP .

TVPaint Developers: can we please talk about this ? I think this is important. In the past two days I have again confirmed that this really IS an impediment for new users. I've been training a very smart , very talented animator (who is computer savvy with Photoshop and Toonboom, not a computer neophyte) on a project I'm working on and this issue caused him frustration. I sent him a file and when he opened it on his end he told me : "the frames are so small, I can't see anything on the frames, I can't move them at all " (as I had described to him how he could drag the little "sprocket hole/handles" on the frames to change the exposures) . Then I Skyped him to screen-share with him to show him the Interactive Zoom Ratio , how to expand the frames on the Timeline . Ok, so problem solved, but what happens for the new user who doesn't have a private tutor on call ? That little Interactive Zoom Ratio button is very difficult to see if you don't already know it is there and are familiar with using it , so I will contend again that the default behavior of a TVPaint file opening with the frames on the Timeline in the compacted mode is counter-intuitive, because the new user does not have any way of knowing how or where to locate the tool to expand the timeline.

Even if we assume every new user sits down and methodically goes step-by-step through the user manual -- and we know that is not the case for most new users -- but even for the few users who will methodically read through the user manual , can you tell me how to easily find a description in the User Manual of a function named "Interactive Zoom Ratio" and how it effects the view of the frames on the Timeline ? A search of the user manual for the term "Interactive Zoom Ratio" yields nothing ... even if the user knows that is the name of the function -- but how would they know that ? -- however if the name of the function in the interface is "Interactive Zoom Ratio" , so why is there nothing about it under that name in the user manual ? The description of the Timeline in the "First Approach to TVPaint" section of the user manual does not mention anything about the Interactive Zoom Ratio button and it's function.

The function of the Interactive Zoom Ratio button is eventually mentioned in the User Manual under a section titled :

The Auto Fit Option in the Timeline .

Image

But again, if the name of the function is Interactive Zoom Ratio , it should be searchable by that name in the user manual . But it is not named that on the page referenced . If the name of the function is actually "Auto Fit Option" then why is it named "Interactive Zoom Ratio" in the interface ?

Image
(shouldn't the description be "Auto Fit Frames To Timeline Option" , because it is listed under "Auto Fit Option" on the page referenced in the User Manual ? )

Would it be too difficult to change the default view of the Timeline to the fully expanded mode (aka "Fit To Frames") when the scene is first opened, allowing the user the option to compact the timeline using the Interactive Zoom Ratio if desired . Or make it an option in Preferences to have the Timeline open in either Compacted mode or Expanded mode , but the DEFAULT behavior is always for it to open in Expanded mode unless the user makes a definite choice to change it to open in Compacted mode in their Preferences . And the option is also there in the (well-hidden) pop-up menu where the user can choose from Fit to Frames (fully expanded) or Fit to Clip , Fit to Layer, Fit to View All , but it would make things less confusing if the default view is Fit to Frames (fully expanded ) .

Image

But choosing a view option from this pop-up menu , for example , choosing "Fit to Frames" (expanded view) , does not stick as a user preference . The next time the file is opened it will have reverted to "Fit to View All" compacted view.
Last edited by D.T. Nethery on 05 Jun 2016, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Fabrice
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by Fabrice » 05 Jun 2016, 19:52

Hello,
We will change the default zoom ratio for the next update.
We will probably improve sonner the manual.
Fabrice Debarge

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by D.T. Nethery » 05 Jun 2016, 19:58

Fabrice wrote:Hello,
We will change the default zoom ratio for the next update.
We will probably improve sonner the manual.
Thanks ! :D
MAC OS 10.11.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.6, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

Kathleen Quaife
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by Kathleen Quaife » 03 Sep 2018, 20:07

David Nethery, You're the BEST!.

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by D.T. Nethery » 04 Sep 2018, 13:58

TVPaint Developers -

This feature request is over two years old now.

Is it possible to implement what I requested in the posts above , regarding the default Timeline View ? Perhaps it would be in Preferences > Display > Timeline View (with choices of:
Compacted or Fully Expanded upon opening project)
MAC OS 10.11.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory , TVPaint PRO 11.0.6, 64bit -
Wacom Cintiq 21 UX - Wacom Intuos Pro 5 - driver version 6.3.20-8

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melanie
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Re: Default Timeline zoom ratio

Post by melanie » 12 Sep 2018, 12:07

We do not forget your request (still on the TODO list), it shall be implemented in a future update.
Mélanie Do Monte • Sales & Support

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