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Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 15:33
by Soom
Well, the question is in the topic – why is it impossible to set the Opacity setting to pen pressure? It only works for custom brush. I suppose it's true for all versions of TVP? If so - I would like to add this to feature requests...
Thanks

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 15:36
by Mads Juul
on the other tools it is "Power" that is the one you should connect to pressure. then I think you get the wanted effect
-Mads

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 15:59
by Elodie
In fact, Opacity is the limit of Power.

We usually advise to users to only modify Power and let Opacity at 100%.

(even in fact, Opacity and Power could be merged, IMO... :roll: )

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 16:03
by ematecki
Elodie wrote:(even in fact, Opacity and Power could be merged, IMO... :roll: )
Nope, the effect of opacity is very useful !

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 16:17
by Elodie
Yes, but it can be managed via a Profile Editor, can't it ?

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 29 Nov 2011, 21:11
by dogsma
Elodie wrote:In fact, Opacity is the limit of Power.

We usually advise to users to only modify Power and let Opacity at 100%.

(even in fact, Opacity and Power could be merged, IMO... :roll: )
They are 2 different situations and I would be rather distressed if opacity and power were merged. It is the only way I can paint with watercolor effects! For layering colors I always have Opacity set in a percentage.If Power is set to Pressure the effect is that as soon as you pick up your "brush"(tool = pen) and then make another stroke , the color goes on as an overlay. It's tricky because it shows your strokes. To not see this build up of strokes and a denser (more opaque color) you have to have Pressure "off" on Power.
This applies to all the tools.
Don't you dare merge them..TVP!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 07:11
by Elodie
Finally, there is a different between power and opacity, when using "gradient" at the same time. That is the only difference that we noticed when enabling other options (papers, drying...), but this difference is bigger enough to "preserve" opacity and power (instead of merging them).

But well, thanks to that experiment, I could now answer the people I train when they ask me "but, what the difference between opacity and power ?" :mrgreen:

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 11:10
by Peter Wassink
if this will help you Elodie:

you could say:
-Power regulates the force (or density) with wich "pixels come out of the tool"
and
-Opacity regulates the opacity of pixels "coming out of the tool"

Because of the nature of the pentool this difference is hard to tell
but with most other tools like the Airbrush,Oilbrush and pencilbrush it is very clear.
and its a legitimate and valuable extra control to have

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 11:37
by Soom
madsjuul wrote:on the other tools it is "Power" that is the one you should connect to pressure. then I think you get the wanted effect
-Mads
That's not precisely true - it doesn't work for oil-brush and wet brush, and partially for pencil (it also triggers other behavior as well), and also airbrush is not as well controlled as it could be...
Elodie wrote:In fact, Opacity is the limit of Power.
We usually advise to users to only modify Power and let Opacity at 100%.
(even in fact, Opacity and Power could be merged, IMO... :roll: )
As I answered to Mads - it doesn't work the same for all tools.
I'm taking Photoshop as an example - there is the Flow and the Opacity, and both control different functions, which is great. Flow in this case = Power in TVP - is the amount of tool value, applied over time, while opacity controls transparency. IMO they should not be united - on the contrary - I think they should be elaborated and pen pressure controlled on all tools. I think combination of opacity and power control can make brushes much more customizable and naturally subtle.
Elodie wrote:Yes, but it can be managed via a Profile Editor, can't it ?
Do you mean the custom brush editor? I told already in the beginning, I know I can change it there, but well - it's only for custom brushes... I can't edit the other tools like that...? And by the way - there is no Power control in this editor, which is strange...

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 11:53
by Mads Juul
Soom wrote: That's not precisely true - it doesn't work for oil-brush and wet brush, and partially for pencil (it also triggers other behavior as well), and also airbrush is not as well controlled as it could be...
You are right :o
This must be a bug!!!
or am i misunderstanding the concept of the power??

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 12:02
by Elodie
Soom wrote:
Elodie wrote:Yes, but it can be managed via a Profile Editor, can't it ?
Do you mean the custom brush editor? .
No, I mean Profile Editor :
profile editor.png
profile editor.png (7.45 KiB) Viewed 15842 times
Soom wrote:That's not precisely true - it doesn't work for oil-brush and wet brush, and partially for pencil (it also triggers other behavior as well), and also airbrush is not as well controlled as it could be...
Don't forget to use the pressure connection on power and disable it on size to see the difference.
pressure.png
pressure.png (36.55 KiB) Viewed 15842 times
I don't have problems with pencil, neither airbrush nor wetbrush. But I agree, there is a strange behavior with oil-brush.

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 30 Nov 2011, 14:23
by Paul Fierlinger
Profile editor is an option I play around with a lot in the course of a day -- sometimes just because some days I have a heavier hand. It is important to start the "S" curve with a flat line on the bottom; the longer the flat part, the less sensitive to pressure. Between the Wacom software setting and the Profile Editor I get the effect of changing nibs on a real dippy pen. Now that we have more pressure points with the combination of the Intuos 4 tablet and TVP 10, there is amazing control of the Pen/brush -- which is just about the only drawing tool I ever use, so I am speaking from a limited viewpoint angle. I contribute this to the discussion only to verify the usefulness and the power of the Profile Editor.

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 01 Dec 2011, 11:07
by Soom
Elodie wrote:No, I mean Profile Editor :
Oh, that one, sorry misunderstood. Yes, it is a great feature for setting pressure-function ratio control, but it still doesn't solve the opacity-power issue, mainly cause there is no Opacity control, so there is nothing to edit...
Elodie wrote:Don't forget to use the pressure connection on power and disable it on size to see the difference.
Of course I did, but again - it only lets me control the density of the tool, not the opacity - I think it's quite different, although might be unnoticeable in some cases. Same with the pencil.
In other words (as it was said here already) - Opacity should control the overall transparency of all pixels, while Power controls the density that pixels lay on the surface over time. I suppose that would be the most proper use of both.

But, oh, well, maybe it is not really that critical... :)

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 06 Dec 2011, 03:40
by masterchief
dogsma wrote:
Elodie wrote:
Don't you dare merge them..TVP!!!!!!!!!!
hi sandra

Re: Why I can't set opacity to pen pressure on most tools?

Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 18:16
by gbball
I too have been wondering why the ability to link pressure sensitivity to the opacity setting is conspicuously absent.

For the developers, is it because it cant be done for the airbrush and the pen brush? These are the two cases where I think it would be most useful. That being said, I would also like to see it as an option for all the brushes. I think they would all benefit from the ability to customize it.

This is one of the main things that keeps me using Photoshop for certain things even though I like TVPaint way better.

-G