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acrookedheart
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Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart » 26 Sep 2020, 22:24

Can someone explain to me why this happens?

It's gone on for as long as I can remember but I never took the time to ask.
It happens when I use the Distortion-Warp Grid FX. I key whatever movement I need and after applying the FX, well you can see what happens.
And my settings for the FX are set to Smooth and Best method.

It's not always this bad. Sometimes its a few dots here and there.
Truckbed Creature.gif
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Ref.gif
Ref.gif

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Peter Wassink
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink » 27 Sep 2020, 20:18

Yes, i can confirm this.

13 Mar 2019, 14:36 i posted a report on this bug in the Beta forum.
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acrookedheart
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart » 27 Sep 2020, 20:29

I love the wrap grid tool but it's a pain when you have a long sequence and have to go back over it in whatever color that's screwed.

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Peter Wassink
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink » 29 Sep 2020, 08:33

i agree its a very usefull tool.

What i'd love to see (apart from having this bug fixed) is a custombrush input.
so instead of just the source and destination grid,
have some more options for the source input:
-source grid
-custombrush
-project
- etc....
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
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acrookedheart
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart » 28 Mar 2021, 18:37

This has not been fixed in the recent update. Is there a possible fix coming down the pipe?
I don't have the same issue with using the Distortion-Optical tool.
Also, it appears to be a transparency problem. When I create a new layer behind the problem and make it the same color, the problem is fixed by way of a band-aid. Of course its till an issue when dealing with a sequence.
SloppyIdle.mp4
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Svengali
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali » 28 Mar 2021, 22:49

I've had this problem with GIF89a output in TVPaint for years (white noise in the last or several of the last frames), but its intermittent depending on the imagery. For a long time I attributed it to my ACDSee image manager because I have other GIF players which somehow suppress the white noise visible in ACDSee playback.

In the end, I think the problem comes from TVPaint's GIF palette reduction process which determines the best 256 colors for the GIF images based on the full color palette for all frames. Once generated the best 256 are substituted in the GIF, the black pixels in the last frame (or frames) aren't properly reduced... instead, converted to white or more likely, improperly converted to transparent letting the white background show through.

I've had some luck by re-importing the GIF back into a clip, then change all 0,0,0 pixels to 1,1,1 pixels, then re-saving out to a new GIF. which makes sense if 0,0,0 pixels are supposedly transparent?

INFO on GIF (Graphics interchange Format 87a and 89a)
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acrookedheart
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart » 29 Mar 2021, 02:24

It doesn't matter if it's a GIF or PNG.

Svengali
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali » 29 Mar 2021, 04:44

Hmm. In my case I've only noticed the noise problem in GIFs and when present, always on the final frames, after export. For me it is a product of Optical Flow distortion so I guess it's two different things...

sven
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink » 29 Mar 2021, 10:45

I believe its not palette nor gif related.

The wrapping grid distortion drops pixels, which creates holes.
I suspect the wrapping grid algorithm needs an overhaul for this to be fixed,
So probably don't expect an improvement fast.
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
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acrookedheart
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart » 29 Mar 2021, 14:54

Peter Wassink wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 10:45
I believe its not palette nor gif related.

The wrapping grid distortion drops pixels, which creates holes.
I suspect the wrapping grid algorithm needs an overhaul for this to be fixed,
So probably don't expect an improvement fast.
Damn, It's such a cool tool that I hate not being able to use it on larger sequences.

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Peter Wassink
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink » 29 Mar 2021, 20:57

its also weirdly random and funny that some holes don't move!?

here i highlighted the 1 pixel holes using the 'border' FX:
warpholes.gif
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
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Svengali
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Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali » 29 Mar 2021, 23:54

Nice catch Peter.
Other clues...
In the first GIF named truckbed? note that some of the artifacts seem to be organized in a kind of hooked line and maintain relative position as they scale up...
Makes me think there is residual noise in some processing buffer that doesn't get properly cleared...
Also reminds me in a way of temporary "ghostlines" that can be toggled on and off by inverting their values: here's part of a GEORGE command concerning the protocol order of operations for that:

COPIED FROM MIKE'S GEORGE COMMAND LIST:

tv_ghostline 0|1 iX1 iY1 iX2 iY2

[WARNING]
if tv_ghostline is used while a MetaFunction is active (in a plugin), be sure to call it AFTER the Refresh() function from PIKeys

Draw or erase a temporary line on the screen

[PARAMETERS]
0|1 enum The mode
_ 0: draw
_ 1: erase
iX1 iY1 double double The begin point of the line
iX2 iY2 double double The end point of the line

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no clue about how the FX HUD lines work, but I mention this because the superimposed green control lines in the Distortion Warp Grid interface overlay are sort of similar to those kind of "ghostlines"... (maybe this might be something the programmers could look at.)

sven
Desktop: tvp Pro 11.0.10-64bit, Win8.1 - 24GB ram -2TB HHD - 256GB SSD - Wacom Cintiq 16, driver 6.3.36-1
Android Tablet: rel. 11, Samsung Galaxy Note10.1 - 32GB internal - microSD 32GB
Android Tablet: rel. 11.5, Samsung Galaxy Tab S7plus - 128GB internal - no microSD yet

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