Keeping file size down

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ryannewelluk
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Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 30 Jul 2018, 15:11

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any tips on keeping file size down. My file has shot up to nearly 15gig recently.

I'm assuming keeping clips in separate projects helps.

Many thanks
Ryan

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Thierry
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by Thierry » 31 Jul 2018, 08:06

Hello Ryan,

Indeed, keeping clips in separate projects help, especially if you have a lot of them (more than 25-30).
Also, make sure that "TVPP compression" is activated in the Preferences panel > Save tab.

Which are your project's dimensions ?
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ryannewelluk
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 01 Aug 2018, 14:36

Hi Thierry and thank you,

Project dimensions are 1920 x 1080.

At the moment my AVI file is about 1gig and the MOV is about 6gig.

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D.T. Nethery
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by D.T. Nethery » 01 Aug 2018, 15:26

ryannewelluk wrote:
30 Jul 2018, 15:11
Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any tips on keeping file size down. My file has shot up to nearly 15gig recently.

I'm assuming keeping clips in separate projects helps.

Many thanks
Ryan

ryannewelluk wrote:
01 Aug 2018, 14:36


Project dimensions are 1920 x 1080.

At the moment my AVI file is about 1gig and the MOV is about 6gig.
The project dimensions are not huge (at 1920 x 1080) ... so I suppose it depends on the length and the number of layers and FX you have applied to layers. More layers and more FX can push up the file size , but you would have to have many layers and many frames to drive up a .tvpp file size to 15 GB .

Are you talking about the TVPaint project file or the exported .MOV (or .AVI) file ? In your first post , when you wrote:
"Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any tips on keeping file size down. My file has shot up to nearly 15gig recently.

I'm assuming keeping clips in separate projects helps"
I would have thought that the reference to "keeping clips in separate projects" was talking about the TVPaint project file , but your most recent post makes reference to the size of the .AVI and .MOV files . Controlling the size of the .AVI or the .MOV files is a different thing than the TVPaint project file. With exporting you can adjust the quality level or the codec used.
For .AVI try using Motion JPEG compression at around 75% compression quality ... if 75% doesn't look good enough, up it to 90% ... if 90% isn't enough , try it at 100% . If you use one of the other .AVI compression options such as RGB (24bits) or RGBA (32bits for exporting with transparency) the quality and color fidelity will be very good , but the file sizes will be HUGE .

For exporting to FFMpeg .MOV you have three options:

-Lossless (RGB-RGBA) . (this is equivalent to Apple Animation codec. The quality and color fidelity is very good , but it will make VERY LARGE file sizes)
-Compressed (RGB) - (this is equivalent to MPEG-4/H.264 compression codec . It makes reasonably small files sizes , but color fidelity is not great. This option is good for animatics or pencil tests where strict color fidelity is not important)
-Compressed (RGB-RGBA) (this is FFMpeg's version of "Apple ProRes 4444". The quality and color fidelity is very good and the file sizes are not as large as using the first option "Lossless" Apple Animation codec , but file sizes are significantly larger than using the second option (MPEG-4) . As a rule I would use this option if image quality/color fidelity is important).

If you are on Mac and install the 32bits version of TVPaint you can access Quicktime .MOV compression codecs .
As a rule for pencil tests or quick color tests where the color fidelity is not important I'll use H.264 because it makes smaller file sizes (but for final color where the color fidelity is important don't use H.264 , it does not have a wide gamma range and will make colors look "washed out" ) . For final color scenes where image quality and color fidelity is important I usually use Apple ProRes 4444 , or Apple ProRes 422 LT if I want to keep the file size smaller.

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On the other hand , if you are referring to keeping the file size down with regard to your TVPaint project file , the best thing to do would be as you already mentioned: break up the scenes in your project into separate files . For example, if your project has a total length of 3 minutes and there are 20 scenes , if you have all 20 scenes contained in one TVPaint file , that will tend to get very large and the playback can be laggy depending on how many layers you have . It's even worse if the entire project is in a single Clip all on one Timeline. At the very least split it up into separate Clips (Scenes) . But if it's a very long project or even a short project (30 secs. - to - 1 minute) that has many layers and FX then it would be better to make each Scene as a separate .tvpp project file .
MAC OS 10.11.6 , Macbook Pro Retina 15-inch, Mid 2015,
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ryannewelluk
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 02 Aug 2018, 09:58

Hi,

My original question is referring to the size of the project file (15gig). It's about 4 minutes, has quite a few layers and FX. It's divided into clips and I've started to work in separate projects to keep the size down.

Sorry, I shouldn't have confused the question by adding in the export sizes.

Thanks for the info.

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slowtiger
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by slowtiger » 02 Aug 2018, 11:36

ryannewelluk wrote:
02 Aug 2018, 09:58
(15gig). It's about 4 minutes, has quite a few layers and FX.
In that case the size seems right. I had large projects as well, TVP is amazingly capable of handling these. If your computer allows (much RAM, fast disks, preferably SSD) you can continue to work with just one file, but you will lose time for navigating and in each open/save action. Better to split along scenes, especially if your film already has these. (It's different for projects which need to look like one long uninterrupted take.)

Take into account that it's much less trouble to backup smaller files, and there's also the possibility of a computer failure (power loss, disk death) while saving which will destroy the file - and you don't want that to happen to your whole film.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

ryannewelluk
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 02 Aug 2018, 12:10

Thanks slowtiger

My larger file and smaller files are backed up on an external drive. Hopefully nothing will die before hand in!

My system does need an upgrade though. Getting some lag on playback and taking time to save.

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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 02 Aug 2018, 12:53

I wonder if you you use an NLE to assemble your clips or are you relying entirely on TVP for every step of your production's completion? It sounds to me that you do not use an NLE and if that is the case my advice is that you consider getting one.
Paul
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ryannewelluk
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 02 Aug 2018, 13:13

Hi Paul,

I haven't heard of NLE before. Are you referring to using something like Premiere to assemble clips? I'm using Audition for the sound.

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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 02 Aug 2018, 13:37

Exactly! I am not familiar with Premiere anymore since I gave it up years ago for Vegas but I understand that Both NLEs (standing for "nonlinear editing" which is carryover terminology from the days of videotape editing) are at the same mature levels these days. The learning curve to get into editing animation is very small and well worth the effort. If one presumes that your films will eventually grow larger it is good to get into the combo ASAP. Besides, video editing can be a lot of fun!
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
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ryannewelluk
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by ryannewelluk » 02 Aug 2018, 13:54

Cool, sounds like a good idea.

I was considering using Premiere or After Effects to do some transitions from scene to scene later but hadn't thought of using Premiere to assemble the clips.

Many thanks!

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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Keeping file size down

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 02 Aug 2018, 15:43

In my workflow I actually make sure to have a working soundtrack first (which will likely change over time so I refer to it as a scratch track) and then assemble my animatics to the tracks in Vegas. Next, I transfer the soundtrack that covers each animatic clip into TVP, placing these individual tracks over each animatic sequence to match an increment of what I have assembled in Vegas. This becomes my timing and animation point -- always to a soundtrack. It has become unimaginable for me over the years to time a clip without a track thus helping me make my characters act properly.

Proper file management is essential to expedite these transfers of sound to TVP. When I change the lengths of each clip in Vegas as I progressively tweak the editing of many clips it changes their initial lengths and placements so whatever I started with in TVP I will have to recopy the Vegas portions of a track and transfer these changes to audio folders on my hard drive. Both the NLE and TVP then share the same folders and for this purpose TVP has a feature you will find under Project (in main menu)>Dependencies>Reload All Sound Tracks. In TVP, next to the word MASTER at the top of the Layer Stack, RMB on the icon of musical notes and select once more Reload All Sound Tracks which will automatically change the lengths of the tracks you already have there. This process is the entire essence of video editing which can be very cumbersome when attempted in TVP alone. I am sure that in Premiere you can follow the same workflow because all professional NLEs let you export individual sound clips to an audio folder.

The other advantage of this workflow is that all separate sound tracks (narration, music and sound effects) can be easily shuffled around an NLE but to do this in TVP is a miserable task even though technically possible as well. BTW, this will also diminish the size of your TVP clips because you will always have just a single soundtrack that is saved with your project.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

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