Export resolution issue

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David_Fine
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Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 09 Jan 2018, 02:54

I have a scene which is 3000 pixels by 2000 because it has a camera move. The camera is set at 1920 x 1080 and I can output a file at that resolution if I output Camera rather than Project. I want to output the scene at the full resolution possible, but I can't see how to do that. If I change the camera parameters to bigger pixels, it changes the composition of the shot. As the scene is actually 3000 px wide and the camera is just a little smaller, I should be able to output that view as about 2600 px, but as I say, I can't. How can I achieve that and maintain the camera composition I have now?
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Animark
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 09 Jan 2018, 05:56

Is the "Convert To" of the export not working?
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 09 Jan 2018, 19:58

I think I realize what I am misunderstanding. I was looking to output at what I would call the native resolution, but really, there isn't one because the camera moves in size and it has to be one single resolution, be it 1920 x 1080 or 4K or whatever, so it always has to recompute. There is no such thing as native, unless the image is locked with no camera move. Then I can output at exactly the resolution of the scene, but that only works when the camera does not resize in the scene. Thank you.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 09 Jan 2018, 20:27

Hmh? Difficult to understand. Maybe you could think it in an opposite way? Make the camera-size to your native resolution and if needing a lower size (1080p) you could convert it in the export panel to that. It is also recomputing, but in the other direction.

Edit: But as long as the camera size is not be converted, it is your native resolution. Isn't it?
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David_Fine
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 09 Jan 2018, 22:34

Let me put it another way. Here is the set up with the A and B camera move and the overall image size. So for maximum resolution, given the project size is 3000 x 2000, what should I set the output at?
screenshot_1860.jpg
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 09 Jan 2018, 23:38

OK and thanks. Now, the setup is clear and I begin to understand.
Is the camera set to 1920 x 1080 and it is zooming from, let's say 120% to 140% between the two positions? And as a result you want to have a movie-file changing its resolution between the positions but staying at a native resolution the same time. Hmh? I don't think it is possible in general - or better spoken, I also don't know a way to reach that.

Maybe if you could tell why you want to have such thing I would have an idea. Or for what you need this. As long as the camera is zooming it have to recalculate the resolution. I am afraid, there is no other way. Sorry for not beeing able to help here.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 10 Jan 2018, 06:42

No, not changing the resolution, just wanting to output at the highest resolution possible considering the project size. As I say, I think I realize that I just have to pick a resolution and let the output recalculate the image. When there is a camera move, it just has to do that, right?
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Animark » 10 Jan 2018, 09:07

Yes, if the camera zooms you would get a different size for every rendered frame. But if the cam don't zoom or if is OK for you to get a stack of images with different size on every frame (I don't know of any video-file which is able to change its resolution during playback) , than you could reach your goal.

You have everything you need: The cam resolution and its zoom value.
1. take the value of the zoom (let's say 120%) and set the zoom to 100%
2. recalculate a new cam resolution: 1920 x 1.2 = 2304 px
3. set the cam resolution to 2304 px
4. render this frame and it should be in the native resolution of the project

If the camera is not zooming (just moving) you can export the camera for the hole movie. If the cam is zooming, you have to repeat steps 1. to 4. for every frame - ending up in a stack of images ... as said before.

But please, let me know for what could this be good for. It really don't makes any sense for me.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 10 Jan 2018, 18:31

I really was not looking to output multiple resolutions. As I said, it's clear how to do this with the way I want with a static scene, but for a camera move, there is no choice but to output at a fixed resolution which means the output is recalculating, but that's the way it is. It was confusing me that the camera is set at 1080, but really, that's meaningless when you output as that's when you choose the resolution. Thanks for your help, Animark.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 10 Jan 2018, 19:24

Actually, I do have another related question. If a scene is 3000 pixels wide and I have a static camera position which is slightly smaller, how can I output so that I get an output file which is the actual pixel resolution of the frame? That is, it might be about 2900 wide in that 3000 project, but how would I know exactly? The camera tool does not appear to tell me. I have a scene which is 16:9 ratio, but it's 3840 pixels wide. The camera is showing the entire scene, but if I go to camera parameters, it reads 1080. That's the correct ratio, but not the correct pixel width of the scene, so why is it not showing the correct size?
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by Elodie » 11 Jan 2018, 08:13

A little reminder about Resolution and Definition, let's not mix both :)

Camera tool acts like a crop or a magnifier, depending on the zoom ratio.

If your camera is 2900 pix wide and zoom ratio = 100% -> when you export you project with the camera view, your project will be cropped to 2900 px wide.
If your camera is 3000 px and you lowered the zoom ratio (96,6675%) -> the display of the camera will 2900 pix wide, but will be exported as 3000 px wide, which means loss of quality.

Here is an example of a project being 2000 x 1125 and we want the camera to be 1920 x 1080...

In other words, here is the good method :

good camera settings.png
good camera settings.png (88.54 KiB) Viewed 349 times
So the project is exported in 1920 x 1080
good caemra.png



Here is the bad method :

bad camera settings.png
bad camera settings.png (22.45 KiB) Viewed 349 times
The camera zoom is low, but it won't reduce the size of the project (it keeps a definition of 2000 x 1125)
bad camera.png
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David_Fine
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 11 Jan 2018, 20:24

I am coming to realize that I don't really understand this, but I better try because it could impact the quality of my output. There are some parameters which are unclear to me. Here is an example project:

- Project resolution = 3840 x 2160.
- Camera is set at full project size, so no cropping. Also, no move, in this case, just held.
- Camera parameters in Camera Tool show 1920 x 1080, but clearly it is not that size, so what does that mean?
- When I export, I can choose to output at HDTV, so 1080, or I can choose No Conversion, which would output at 3840 x 2160.

So the resolution is determined by the choice when I go to output. What does the setting in the Camera Tool Parameters have to do with this? Why does the Camera Tool Parameter tell me it's 1080, when the composition shows me that the frame is set at 3840? If I were to change the Parameter setting to 3840, the composition enlarges way beyond the project image, but the project image is 3840, so why is it doing that?

There is clearly something I don't understand about how this works and I want to be sure to be outputting so that the image is at it's best, so I hope you can help me understand. Thanks.
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by D.T. Nethery » 11 Jan 2018, 21:57

David_Fine wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 20:24
I am coming to realize that I don't really understand this, but I better try because it could impact the quality of my output. There are some parameters which are unclear to me. Here is an example project:

- Project resolution = 3840 x 2160.
- Camera is set at full project size, so no cropping. Also, no move, in this case, just held.
- Camera parameters in Camera Tool show 1920 x 1080, but clearly it is not that size, so what does that mean?
- When I export, I can choose to output at HDTV, so 1080, or I can choose No Conversion, which would output at 3840 x 2160.

So the resolution is determined by the choice when I go to output. What does the setting in the Camera Tool Parameters have to do with this? Why does the Camera Tool Parameter tell me it's 1080, when the composition shows me that the frame is set at 3840? If I were to change the Parameter setting to 3840, the composition enlarges way beyond the project image, but the project image is 3840, so why is it doing that?

There is clearly something I don't understand about how this works and I want to be sure to be outputting so that the image is at it's best, so I hope you can help me understand. Thanks.
Well, if the original project resolution is 3840 × 2160 (which is DCI 4K UHD resolution for 16:9 aspect ratio) and you want the output to be at that same resolution , why not just set the Camera Parameters to a Custom setting of 3840 x 2160 instead of HDTV 1920 x 1080 camera parameters ? It's the same 16:9 aspect ratio . If necessary you can always scale it down later to 1920 x 1080 or 1280 x 720 for distribution on the internet (YouTube or Vimeo or iTunes) . I'm assuming your original resolution is intended to be digitally projected on a large theater screen. With 4K digital projection becoming the standard I would think you would want to keep that resolution of 3840 × 2160 UHD .

Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 4.02.05 PM.jpg
Obviously no problem for a shot with a locked camera with no camera move. Of course , if you want to zoom-in closer or pan north-south-east-west , you have to over-scale your project size , so you might work at something like 7680 x 4320 , with camera parameter set to the intended output of 3840 × 2160 , so that would be the size it renders to with Camera View selected in the Export panel. The rule would be that the smallest camera field has to be equal to the intended output ( 3840 × 2160 ). So any camera field working within that larger 7680 x 4320 will have sharp resolution as long as you don't field in closer than what would be 100% camera resolution of 3840 x 2160 . (although my own tests show that I can go in a bit further than 100% zoom ratio ... I tried at test where I started at 200% and zoomed in to 75% and the final image still looked sharp to me ... with the caveat that I'm viewing it on a computer monitor , not a large HDTV or a theater screen . If your film has a technical director I'd consult with them to find out the limits you can push it to before you'd need to necessarily scale up the resolution of the original project size. To be safe I don't think I'd push it beyond 90% . If I had to get in closer I'd switch to a higher starting resolution . See next example.
Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 4.15.30 PM.jpg
If you had a shot with an extreme zoom-in from a wide field to a very tight field, what would be equivalent of a move from "12 Field" to "3 Field" (as we would have talked about in ye olden days of 12 Field graticules/field guides) then to maintain maximum image sharpness throughout the entire range of that long zoom-in (from "12F" to "3F") you'd have to over-scale the project resolution to 15360 x 8640 , so by the time the camera got to the "3 Field" position it is still at 100% camera resolution of 3840 × 2160 . At that extreme size of 15360 x 8640 I would imagine a long scene that had many frames and multiple layers would have very laggy performance unless you're using a computer with a very fast processor and a lot of RAM ... so my tendency would be to never plan a scene for a continuous zoom-in (or zoom-out) over that wide of a range , but figure out a way during layout to split it up into two or three different scenes that would hook-up seamlessly to avoid any visible "jumps" during the zoom. (see this : https://www.tvpaint.com/forum/viewtopic ... 820#p20783) But I'm just using this as an example for talking about the Project Resolution compared to Camera Size compared to final Output Resolution .
Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 4.29.21 PM.jpg
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by David_Fine » 12 Jan 2018, 22:36

Thanks for the thorough info. I do understand the principal of resolution, but what I am not understanding is what the camera parameter settings have to do with the output because I set the output when I use the export feature. If the Camera is set at 1920 on a scene which is actually 3840 wide and the output setting on export is set to 3840, then I will get a file which is 3840 wide, so what is achieved by changing the camera parameter settings? Currently, they seem to default to 1080. Do I need to change that? Will changing that have any impact on the output quality or is it entirely determined by the chosen resolution setting in the export dialogue? I hope my dilemma is clear. What is the Camera Parameter setting used for if I choose the output resolution in the export window?
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Re: Export resolution issue

Post by slowtiger » 12 Jan 2018, 23:15

OK. Imagine a real HD video camera. Its output will always fill that 1920 x 1080 px sensor, no matter which lens the cameraperson uses, no matter how much they zoom in, no matter how fast and in which direction the camera moves. Always the same output size.

The camera in TVP works just the same. Your project is the landscape, the set. No matter how much you move and zoom with your camera, the output is always the size you defined in the camera settings.

For a project without camera, the rendered video is the size of the export settings.
For a project with camera, the rendered video is the size of the camera settings.


Now lets say you want a video file of only half dimensions. You change the export dimension settings to half. If your project uses a camera, the camera dimensions will be halved now.
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